Potential cop post

[zdashamber]

I'm back hale and well from ACUS. To address the immediate wonderings I fancy kittentikka and a2macgeek may hold: I made my flight fine. Even though I got to the ticket counter after the 45-minute cutoff, the Frontier lady was on my side, "Here are the directions to the gate, go! Move as quickly as you can!" This is why Frontier is a good airline, unlike United, may its name moulder in infamy.

ACUS was great fun. Slowly I will work on getting the quotes and report out. In the meantime, there are a couple questions I've been meaning to put to you all.

For today, I'll start with the most dramatic: I'm considering becoming a cop. What are your thoughts on the job, and my potential relation to it?

I'm bored with my current job, having conquered all its challenges a year and a half ago. (Currently, I'm a tech at a research institute, tracking mice for alcoholism studies. This came about because I got a degree in biology with the intention of being a genetic engineer, and then found this job, listed as genetic engineering on mice. And having tried it, it's not really what I want to do.)

The vague plan was to keep the current job, build up money, and use the free off-hours to start a business. No movement has been occurring on that so far, however. Then I came across an article in the paper about how Oakland is frantically scrambling to find and train police officers. Pay while in the academy is listed at $62,245, and then $69,162, rising to $87,172 after three years (or possibly one if they really scramble).

Currently I make about $38,500 (I still need to do taxes, ai!). I have enough to live on and put stuff aside and buy pretty much anything I want. In part this is because I don't want much. I thank all my cheap ancestors. ;) Still, another (guessing) $15,000 a year after taxes could put me on the path to having a down payment for a house in a few years, which would be nice... Then I could pour all my money into things like insulation and roof repairs and shed building. Yeehaw! (Yeah, all of you who don't live in the Bay Area where the median house costs $637,000, laugh it up, furballs...)

As to the job itself, I looked into the details as far as I could find on the web. Looks like the work week is generally 4 consecutive days of 10 hours each. Shifts and patrol areas are chosen in a yearly drawing based on seniority. The FAQ says "days off" are drawn, too... I suppose that means Christmas and Thanksgiving are for the less senior people to work. Hopefully it doesn't mean that I'd have to know all the vacation I was taking a year or more in advance. Mom points out that since the department is understaffed I'd probably be in for mandatory overtime; I wonder if I'd have control over when that was scheduled.

Reasons I'd want to do it: I imagine it'd be different things every day. I'd get to help people and be decent in times of stress. I like driving around. I could nail people for the things I personally find reprehensibly dangerous, like tailgating. I like Oakland, and it'd be nice to give back. If the work environment was welcoming, the congeniality of it sounds appealing. It'd be good fodder for stories, or if I ever wanted to go into politics. I'm already planning to be a rock of prepared stability during a major earthquake or disaster, so the job is sort of a natural for me when it comes to that. Three-day weekends would let me get a ton more done.

Reasons I'd perhaps not want to do it: Largest on the list is the potential for a work environment dominated by macho pinheads. Hopefully in a big diverse liberal-ish city like Oakland that wouldn't be so much a problem. Mary points out that I'd run into crap from the people I'd be arresting regardless of whether the other cops were cool or not. I'd have to get in shape, though that would be good for me anyway. People would always drive slow around my car. My job might alarm people I'd randomly converse with.

I surely have not thought of all the aspects, and you folks are clever and varied. What do you think?

Comments

[jamused.livejournal.com]

Seems like a decent enough idea to me. I'm not sure exactly how much leeway you'd be allowed to spend a lot of time handing out tailgating citations, though...

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Heh. Well, I was thinking the worst case scenario would be that I'd be doing nothing but traffic cop stuff, and in that case it would be nice to not have to be the dick pulling over people going just a bit above the speed of traffic. (Fortunately, parking enforcement is I think done by meter maids alone in Oakland.)

[kittentikka.livejournal.com]

Try it out first. There must be a volunteer police service you can join in your copious free time, to see what the life is like without committing fully. Surely there's a one of them?

[jamused.livejournal.com]

I don't think being a volunteer is anything like being an actual cop. As I understand it, a volunteer would basically do clerical work, read parking meters, answer questions at the front desk, etc., in order to free up a real cop from those duties. It might give some kind of feel for what the people are like and the worst scut-work parts of the job, but it's not like, say, volunteer firefighters where you can actively participate in the putting out fires.

[kittentikka.livejournal.com]

Ah. Over here, Special Constables get to go out on patrol.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Well, there are ride-alongs, where the general public can ride in a police car for awhile and see what it's like. You've a good point, and I should sign up for some of those.

[cochese.livejournal.com]

While I find chick cops sexy, my first thought is: Do you think you could pass the physical requirement? You've always struck me as a tiny wisp of a thing, and most of the female cops I've met are pretty fawking buff. Hell, same with the female firefighters.

What's your exercise regimen like? Can you run a mile? Do a bunch of push-ups?

I think the point abuot catching hell from people you arrest is valid. They also might not take you seriously. I mean, I can't fight, but I'm certain that if I accidentally fell on you I'd break something.

I don't have any beefs with the law-enforcement profession. I met a lot of cops when I worked loss prevention. (In fact, loss prevention is often a first step for people looking to become a cop.) But I know it might cause some friction with people you know. Though I've been clean for some time, I imagine there's more than a few herb-friendly people in the gaming community. What would be your reaction to that sort of situation? Would you arrest them if you knew they were doing pot? Would you arrest them? Would you risk losing your job if it came out you were fraternizing with "criminals?"

Me, if I wanted a physically demanding high-risk job that involved helping people, I'd become a firefighter.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was thinking about that this morning. I'd be much more likely to have people try to run or fight when faced with me. I suppose I'd have a taser, but it'd be a shame to have to use it all the time.

As for herb, thank god, I think we in Oakland voted a few years ago to make it the least priority of anything possible for our cops to be doing. It might get me more freedom from the stink of pot to be a cop, but I don't think I'd be expected to arrest people who were being moderate.

[cochese.livejournal.com]

Sorry if my earlier comment was a little disjointed. I was late for work, and rushed through it.

I guess I often view being a cop through the lens of my experience in loss prevention. And I really didn't like loss prevention. It really takes a certain mentality to want to do that, and I lacked it. I don't thrive on danger or risk. I don't thrive on catching crooks. You're also held up to a higher standard than Joe Shmoe. Who you associate with and what you do in your free time can be an issue.

The pot thing was just one example of that last. I've known at least one person who's gotten in trouble with the law because their roommate/boyfriend/whatever was doing something illegal/illicit.

Plus, you find yourself having to bust people even if you totally empathize with their plight. One of my first arrests during training in loss prevention was an old homeless man who was stealing a six-pack of beer on his birthday.

My recommendation, if you're really serious about this, is to (a) find out what the physical fitness requirements are and start working towards them and (b) take a martial art. I don't mean one of those spiritual chi-channelling ones like tai ch'i or aikido. I'm talking about one of those self defense courses where you do a lot of push-ups and spar with other people. The more nights per week, the better. Learn what it's like to be in a fight in a controlled environment. Maybe go out paintballing a few times. It's fun, and it can be a little humiliating to realize how unprepared you are to run around and shoot other people. =P If you do those two things and think, "This ain't so bad" then you may be able to handle being a cop. If you think "I totally hate this" I'd take that as a sign from above.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

The Javert thing would suck, yes.

I have actually taken some martial arts; about this time last year I started taking Kali, a Philipino martial art like Escrima except with longer sticks, for four hours a week. I stopped around November... I was the only new person in the small group, so I felt like someone was wasting their time with me every class I was at, and also 7ish months is apparently about as long as I can go being the suckiest at something in a reasonably supportive environment. I like being good at things. ;) But I wasn't inspired to practice outside of class to get better, so, vicious cycle. And I didn't necessarily get that "oo it feels so nice to have moved around" thing that people talk about, and I found I had things I'd rather do with my time.

I like the thought of paintball, but I don't think to go do it. If I did, my tactics would be more along the lines of ambushes and snipers.

It is my impression that fighting and shooting people is not a terribly large part of the job, which is a plus for me.

[cochese.livejournal.com]

Javert? I get that this is a Les Miz reference, but I've not seen/read Les Miz.

I'm not saying that being a cop means a lot of fighting. But there's a lot of opportunity confrontation when you are a cop (verbal, emotional, physical). The martial arts and paintball and stuff? Exposing yourself to confrontation. Me? Not a confrontation guy in any sense of the word. I couldn't handle the shitty confrontations you get when dealing with shoplifters in a department store. I cannot even imagine the bullshit cops deal with.

A routine traffic stop could get you shot at. Coming in to deal with a domestic dispute could find you on the receiving end of some drunk and pissed off dude's attitude and/or fists. Just a concerned check-in on a homeless guy could get you a whole lot of attitude. As a little white, blonde-haired woman in a cop uniform, some people will just hate you on sight. Don't you live in Oakland? How do low-income ethnic neighborhoods feel about the police? Do you feel you can handle that situation?

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

Les Mis geek here to clear up the Javert thing -- he's the police inspector who arrested Valjean for stealing a loaf of bread, and the one who pursued him through the rest of the story. He's Justice in opposition to Valjean's Mercy. One of his key lines is "I am the law and the law is not mocked."

Not a pleasant fellow, although I have some sympathy for him anyway.

[cochese.livejournal.com]

One other thing I thought of was: If you want to come up this summer, we can wrassle (in a non-erotic way) and you can see what it's like to deal with someone three times as heavy as you. I'm always reminded of my half-brother's half-sister, who is taking a martial art, has advanced rapidly through the ranks, and couldn't fight her way out of a paper bag. She's 8 years old. She can break boards in a controlled environment, but if I get my hands on her she's SOL. Because she's just a tiny whisp of a thing. (On the other hand, Irene from ACNW is a black belt in karate who teaches it and could probably kick my ass.)

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

I think Irene's about my height/weight...

Anyway, my plan for an actual fight with someone your size involves subterfuge and eyeball crushing. It's probably not applicable to sparring, or most police work. I get the impression they teach techniques that are acceptable.

[cochese.livejournal.com]

Irene's probably your build. She also has a strong "I can kick your ass vibe." I don't honestly have any thing to indicate that she *could* kick my ass. I just get the sensation that she could. A lot of that is probably attitude. I seem to recall her saying there's a lot of fights she couldn't win, but there's a lot of attitude.

Irene is also a very small, tight bundle of muscle.

Again, my general thought is: You may be attacked by someone much bigger than you. I imagine with discipline and training, you can learn to defend against that. But the bigger question is: Are you comfortable with that?

[miabarimen.livejournal.com]

I think you're a little taller than I am, but yeah, we're about the same build. As re cochese's remark: if I got in first, yes I quite possibly could win, but if not, well, height, weight and reach do make a difference. On the other hand, tazer and a uniform make a difference too. I worked security for heavy metal concerts before I ever had a black belt, maintaining order purely by force of personality.

In other words, I'm a class-A bitch.

[cochese.livejournal.com]

But a sexy class-A bitch!

[ameer-tavakoli.livejournal.com]

::laughs::

Yeah, when I describe you to other people, the first words out of my mouth are, "she can kick my butt" (editor's note: verbiage cleaned up for those reading this at work ... though if you are reading this at work, you are a slacker).

The seconds words out of my mouth are, "and she can totally drink me and almost everyone else I know under the table."

Wait a minute ... is this a toast or a roast? I always get those confused.

[tlatoani.livejournal.com]

Paging kittentikka...

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Dude, first in warfare and endurance? Unfair...

[badgerbag.livejournal.com]

Bah - I don't think being a cop has a "brawn" requirement. You could pull it off, you're good and bossy and you'd have a gun. I also think you could handle the macho pinheads. Who better?

[tlatoani.livejournal.com]

Leaving aside cochese's broad dissing of Tai Chi and Aikido (both of which actually can be learned as martial arts even if they usually aren't) here are a couple practical issues:

1. Cops work nights and weekends, and junior cops get the crap shifts. It's a very disruptive work schedule, and it may not be conducive to stuff like Ambercon and gaming.

2. Police work is high-stress, and is usually disruptive to personal relationships for a variety of reasons (the above being one of them).

On the other hand, it sounds like it pays reasonably well out there, there's a certain amount of job security, and smart people can often advance out of beat work if they want to.

[cochese.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't mean to diss Tai Chi and Aikido. I'm a big fan of both, but from my experience the classes don't involve as much getting your ass handed to you, confrontation and the feeling that you're in bootcamp. Which was my main point. I know that both disciplines can be pretty nasty ass-kicking sorts of disciplines, but I was aiming more for the teaching environment I've seen.

Tai Chi classes that I've seen tend to be solitary sorts of things where you follow along with the instructor, and the aikido classes I've taken have mostly involved slowly practicing one technique with a fellow student for most of the class. Most ass-handing experiences I've had with aikido was when I was a demonstration victim for the sensei. Which usually involved me making a slow motion punch at the sensei followed by a lot of the sensei mopping the floor with me. Often literally, as I would be dragged around with my face on the matt and my arm twisted around like a pretzel. Otherwise it was a very laid back experience. We practiced the maneuver slowly and patiently. There was never any sparring in aikido unless you were in the special "competition" style aikido program. (I can't remember the name.) I've been on the receiving end of some aikido beat downs, so I know it can be effective in the right hands. But the teaching environment I've been exposed to has generally been pretty mellow.

On the other hand, the karate-style classes I've taken have been more like bootcamp. A lot of rigorous exercise and, for more advanced students, sparring. (I've never been an advanced student.) Which seemed like the sort of high-stress training environment you'd want if you wanted to see if you were down with the dealing with crooks lifestyle.

[tlatoani.livejournal.com]

Ah. I misunderstood your point.

[cochese.livejournal.com]

No problems. Apparently I didn't explain it well at all, since no one understood where I was going with it. =P That's what happens when you post comments in a hurried rush when you're supposed to be working.

[motleypolitico.livejournal.com]

*mumbles something about there have got to be better paying biology jobs out there, having been in the field once upon a time*

Also, one of the things I haven't heard represented is why cops get paid what they do: the job has a certain amount of inherently fatal danger associated with it. It tends to be very intolerant of mistakes in judgment, often those made in a split second.

Do you want to have 0.2 seconds to make a decision which could lead to loss of life (yours or someone else's)? Being a cop seriously demands that you have confidence and that when a critical moment arrives, that you have to rely on training and reflexive response from it, because thinking it through is not an option.

Fundamentally, in order to be a cop, you have to be willing and able to take another person's life when the situation requires. That's a burden which requires careful consideration, because you can find yourself second-guessing your behavior for years afterward if you're ever unfortunate enough to be put into that crucible.

Also speaking on a purely 'I like you' front, there's enough gang problems in Oakland that I'd personally worry for your safety. There's a big difference between "small town" cop and "big city" cop, in terms of the stuff you're likely to face. And that's beyond the bureaucracy and politics and the likely prejudices against female officers.

I think I've outlined all the worries I would have for anyone pursuing that line of work now. The salary is nice. I assume the benefits are also pretty decent. For my own dime, I have to think there's other ways to earn a paycheck that don't have all the baggage, but I'm definitely not you. And while I'm certain enough that with training you could beat me up (as horribly out of shape as I am), I'm not certain you can manage it today. Or against the average 21 year old gang member. It's a worry that others have addressed and one that I also share.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

I love driving, but I'm always on some level aware that if I fuck up I could be bringing two tons of speeding metal down on someone. I feel I've got pretty good crisis-handling abilities, though. There's a certain amount of forethought that helps a person out in these situations... For instance, I've long concluded that while I'd really rather not, I am willing to kill or die to save my life or the lives of others.

Good point about the gangs: I'll have to look into the liklihood of criminals with vendettas, and how much I'd really be hated as a cop. And good point about the better bio jobs, too. I glanced briefly at Craigslist and it looked like the ones in the same pay range were supervisory, which doesn't really thrill me at all... But I'll definitely look into it more thoroughly.

[badgerbag.livejournal.com]

You could learn like 1 book's worth of programming and get a tech job, even biotech. The market is picking up. Good pay, a lot of slack time.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I don't know what to say. The pay's great. It seems very ambitious. Me, I bake muffins.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the "ambitious" thing has me suspicious of whether I'm just hypnotized by glory... And whether that's a bad thing.

The way you describe baking makes it sound like a job of glory, too.

[jamused.livejournal.com]

It strikes me as ambitious, but in a good way.

As to physical safety, being a cop isn't that dangerous. At least, it's not in the top ten most dangerous jobs in America, and at least two of the ones that are (trucker and pizza delivery driver) wouldn't give most people much pause if you announced you wanted to become one. I believe most cops go through their entire careers without ever firing their weapons in earnest. Motleypolitico is right that, at least in theory, you have to be willing to take someone's life in defense of your own or another's, but in practice...not so much. Or at least, when gunfighting comes up police effectiveness has been rated at about 17% (one hit for every 6 shots); fortunately crooks are even worse (estimated about 10%). It's kind of like that scene in the "War Stories" episode of Firefly:

Mal: I hear y'all took up arms in that little piece o' action back there. How're you faring with that, Doctor?
Simon: I don't know. I, uh… eh, I never… never shot anyone before.
Book: I was there, son. I'm fair sure you haven't shot anyone yet.

On the other hand, being a cop is definitely a high-stress occupation: divorce, alcoholism, and suicide are all high among police (that last is in dispute--and at any rate is lower than the rate among dentists and doctors, make of that what you will).

Philosophically, though, you do have to be prepared to enforce laws you don't agree with. In Oakland that might not be busting people for smoking weed, but it might be arresting protesters who are breaking the law (obstructing public access or whatever) even if you agree with them, etc. You have to believe that fundamentally the system works, and that every part of it is worth doing faithfully--or at least that it would be a whole lot worse if everyone with power just decided to do what they personally thought was right instead of following the laws.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Point to jamused for quoting Firefly in an amusing and applicable manner!

Yeah, as a more neutral good sort, I am considering whether I'd be able to get along in a job billed as lawful, likely surrounded by a bunch of lawful-aligned folks. To continue the geekiness trend. ;)

[jhkimrpg.livejournal.com]

Wow!! Just saw this.

It took me by quite a bit of surprise, but it seems like it could be positive. I'd like to talk to Dennis, who's in my Harn group, and works as a parole officer, since he works with cops a lot. We tend to kid him a bunch since he's "in the closet" about his gaming.