Bra Fashion!

[zdashamber]

So, this is going to be a much easier question than the last few, and I expect you all to have an opinion, because in this post I'm going to be talking about fashion!

Yep, I'm under the impression that, unlike most forms of underwear, bras impinge enough on the conscious of society that there are meanings attributed to the various wearing a bra/not wearing a bra choices. But I don't know what the heck those meanings are. I get the impression that bra meanings have changed in the last 50 years, perhaps several times, and I'm not sure what's currently in ascendance.

What is is that you're saying when you don't wear a bra? Is it "I am a skank", or "I am not a skank"? At what point does the plausible deniability engage--is it ok to go braless if people would have to be looking to notice, like if you were wearing a silky shirt that would normally show the bra back when you folded your arms? Is it good, or bad, to wear a bra under one of those tank tops with thin straps that won't hide the bra straps?

Is the purpose of a bra (leaving aside the "holding up boobs" thing) to disguise the fact that you have nipples? I'm confused about how terrible it is to have nipples. I've gotten catalogs that offer fake plastic "always pointy" nipples... On the very same page as nipple-flattening sticky things. On the other hand, I get catalogs that offer underwear with pockets for you to add butt enhancements. I just can't trust the fashion consciousness of the catalogs that come to my zip code.

But I'm sure I can trust you, my wise and perspicacious friends. When is it ok to not wear a bra? Speak, I entreat thee! [hee hee hee hee...]

Comments

[cochese.livejournal.com]

Not sure I'm the person to answer this question. I was raised by my grandparents, so I have a very skewed view of bras. I think there's also a distinct generational and sociological stance too. I don't think you'll get the same answer if you asked people of different ages or subcultures. I'm sure my 40 year old lesbian feminist friend would have a very different view of bras than my wife or my grandma would.

Ignoring the conditioned responses I have from growing up with a woman who felt she had to wear nice clothes to go to the grocery store, I generally think that the primary use of a bra is to manage unruly breasts. I gather that excessive jiggling can be painful, and it's nice to have a harness to keep your lower back from declaring war on the rest.

Demonstrating my utter lack of Holmesian abilities, I'd must admit I can't recall how large your breasts are. You make a big deal about how small they are, but I make a big deal about how fat I am. I think neither opinion is very objective.

That said, I think that if you feel comfortable not wearing a bra, don't wear one. If the jiggling of mammary tissue does not cause you concern, or you do not worry about breast saggage later in life: Don't wear one.

If you are concerned about people knowing that you do, indeed, possess nipples, then you should wear one. If you work in an environment filled with ultra-conservative types, you should wear one even if you have the body of a 12-year old boy. I don't know how pre-occupied with nipple sensitivity, but I think wearing a bra is also supposed to decrease the the amount of de-sensitation that you experience.

My wife has declared herself not in a position to answer, as she needs to wear a bra out of a combination of comfort and upbringing.

[follybard.livejournal.com]

I agree with cochese that the meaning of wearing vs not wearing a bra probably depends on who you ask.

To me, not wearing a bra mostly means "Lucky you!" To someone a decade older, it probably means "feminist". To someone two decades older, it means you haven't gotten dressed yet. :)

I wear a bra for everything except bathing and sleeping. I'm sure it appalls my mother that I wear little spaghetti-strap tank-tops with my bra straps hanging out... or it would, anyway, if she weren't so distracted by all the glorious armpit fuzz.

I like to pretend that demonstrating vs not demonstrating one's own nipplage is irrelevant... mostly because I've never met a bra that could properly disguise mine. And I'm too lazy/cheap to go out of my way to disguise them otherwise.

I should tell my spouse to throw in his comments, because I get the impression (based on the number of interested questions he asks on the subject of bras and bra-wearing) that he's got an opinion or two on the subject. :)

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Do ask your spouse! I'd definitely value his opinion, too.

So you think old folks expect all women to wear bras? Useful to know in case I visit an old folks home or a classic car show or something...

[amberdiceless.livejournal.com]

[Pardon me for butting into a different part of the discussion...]

I think the bra, along with high heels, is the final vestige of the clothing conventions that included such horrors as the corset. The whole bra-burning thing in the sixties was supposed to be about rebelling against the establishment and throwing off the shackles of oppression and all that...but I think most people who were raised before that time consider it an essential piece of equipment. (I know my mother, who was born in the 30's, wouldn't have been caught dead outside the house without one.)

With the way clothing trends have gone generally over the years, I would guess that if a significant part of the female population didn't find them comfortable and/or useful, the bra would probably not be with us today.

[(Anonymous)]

Breasts are distracting. If you want to distract someone and you think it's socially acceptable to do so, wear something so that your breasts are obvious -- pointy nipples, lots of cleavage, that sort of thing.

If you want to wear something to impress people with your professionalism, well, that's a tricky question that I'm not qualified to answer. It's a pretty well known fact that women in the workplace have a tough challenge trying to walk the fine line between unprofessional and unfeminine.

If you don't give a rats ass what people think, wear something that's comfortable.

Spouse

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I wear a chef's jacket to work. I wear a bra under it when I have sore achy PMS boobs, and generally it's a halter-type sports bra. Otherwise I wear a tank-top style undershirt. What this says about me is "nobody can tell if I have boobs at all under this jacket."

Personally I think that bra straps sticking out from under spaghetti strap camisoles are pretty skanky-looking, but I may be using an obsolete standard; my mother passed along HER standards, which were formed in the days when co-eds at Emerson actually had to sign a permission book if they wanted to wear slacks on a date, saying they were going bowling or something, because the Back Bay matrons thought it lowered the tone of the neighborhood to have young women strolling around in slacks. And that's what they called them, slacks... NOT just pants, and Heaven forbid you wore jeans.

When I'm not in my work uniform, and not in the flannel pants and T-shirts I wear around the house, I wear a bra if the clothes are relatively close-fitting, because I don't pass the Pencil Test, and I think I look prettier if I counteract the effects of gravity a little. The only bra that fits me comfortably and shapes me more than a sports bra costs $53. I have weird-shaped boobs, I guess, and this irrational demand that the bra actually TOUCH my breastbone in between instead of standing an inch away. The $53 bra is not especially pretty in and of itself, but it gives me amazing perky rounded Barbie-boobs, and it's almost as comfortable as a sports bra, and if I could afford several of them, I might wear a bra more often.

I refuse to pay any attention to whether my nipples are visible. If I were really upset about it, I suppose there's always gaffer tape.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

[googling "pencil test" +breast... Ok, then...]

See, it's the "uncomfortable" issue that gets me, too. I think pretty much anything designed specifically for women is designed terribly.

So do you just not wear tops with thin straps, or do you just go bra-free when you do?

My mom tells me that the dress code at Boulder High School in the late 60s forbid women from wearing pants... They'd all carry jeans with them and change as soon as school was out. If anyone is sad that the younger generation doesn't appreciate feminism, send them to me. (Forced skirts? God!)

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I go braless under tops with thin straps... unless I really feel like I need one, and then I've got an old strapless bra around somewhere. Actually, not somewhere, I know exactly where. Top left hand dresser drawer.

I will have to ask my mother about her high school's dress code, in New Jersey in the late fifties and early sixties (she was class of 1961). I know there were some real doozies.

The funny thing is, I don't mind skirts, really, and will happily wear them if I want to dress at any level fancier than jeans -- it's all the stuff that goes WITH skirts in a business environment that I hate. Namely, pantyhose and pumps. Ick. I wear my skirts with boots, or sandals, or, if absolutely necessary, a pair of Capezio character shoes, which are designed to be neutral, unobtrusive, and comfortable despite their heels (they're essentially adult tap shoes without the taps), and which are not BUTT UGLY the way that most women's shoes since about 1993 have looked to my eyes.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Dress Codes

[obadiah.livejournal.com]

I went to an all-boys prep school in Tennessee, and we had the following items in our dress code:

No shirts without collars (buttondown or polo shirts okay).

No jeans -- slacks only (in the hot months, such as late May, Bermuda shorts/walking shorts were okay, but only after the date the administration said it was okay). At the time, the fashion in the rest of the country was short shorts for both genders, btw. The heathens!

No sneakers -- most people wore penny loafers or some such.

And here's the gender-specific kicker: no hair long enough to touch your shirt collar (remembering that we're dealing with real collars, not t-shirts here). Also no beards, mustaches, or sideburns below the ears.

On Fridays (when we had guest speakers), it was mandatory coat and tie. In the hot months, again after specified dates, we could take the coats off after assembly (which was still called "chapel," although no religious services took place).

At my school, we had no hippies, freaks, goths, punks, or any other subculture based on dress.

My senior year, I grew my sideburns so that they reached just below the ears, by about a half-inch, to see if the administration would ding an A student. They didn't, but my fellow students kicked in with lots of peer pressure, calling me "Elvis" and such (which I found rather amusing, actually). I eventually got bored with baiting the administration and shaved them off. Looked better that way, anyway.

But when I got to college, boy did I wear jeans, t-shirts, and sneakers, lemme tell you!

Crossing Hearts and Boundaries: Contexualizing the Brassiere in the Post-Modern Image of Femininity

[obadiah.livejournal.com]

I've always felt that clothing should be worn according to social situations. For example, I would recommend wearing a bra to work, but I would also recommend not wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

Physical comfort is important, but mental comfort is also important. Wear what makes you feel comfortable in social situations. I don't think a bra would be necessary, say, for a walk in the park, a jaunt to Telegraph avenue, or an outdoor concert at the San Jose Jazz Festival. And bras are positively retro-future at a Ren Faire.

One thing you didn't discuss was bra color. As a male who is attracted to females, I find myself liking black bras more than those of other colors, such as white, off white, and that icky not-quite-white-person-flesh-color-but-wants-to-be tan. But YMMV. I think visibly red or black bras make a less ambiguous statement about sexuality than wearing or not wearing a bra -- as in, it doesn't ever proclaim, "I'm a bra-burning feminist of the 1970s." But it might proclaim, "I'm hella liberated."

Re: Crossing Hearts and Boundaries: Contexualizing the Brassiere in the Post-Modern Image of Feminin

[cochese.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. Color. Another grandparent-inspired knee-jerk reaction is the scandalous sight of a woman wearing a colored bra under a non-matching sheer top.

Mercy!

Scandalous Sight

[obadiah.livejournal.com]

Another grandparent-inspired knee-jerk reaction is the scandalous sight of a woman wearing a colored bra under a non-matching sheer top.

It's the non-matching part that's scandalous. Major fashion blunder.

But then, black goes with everything.

Re: Scandalous Sight

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Color didn't even register to me, since the concept of "visible bra" immediately triggered my "this is probably a skanky thing" switch. And if you can't see the bra, it doesn't matter what color it is. I'd naturally been leaning towards light colors because they're less likely to show through a shirt.

What think ye on the "bra straps visible with tank top" issue?

Re: Scandalous Sight

[obadiah.livejournal.com]

What think ye on the "bra straps visible with tank top" issue?

Always looks sub-optimal, but can be done in such a way as to not be actively an eyesore.

Visibly colored bras do not always equal "skanky" to my mind, although they do exude a certain sexuality. (Whether it registers as skanky or not depends on what else the person is wearing.)

[a2macgeek.livejournal.com]

What I'm saying when I don't wear a bra (which is all the time) is that they're uncomfortable as hell, and I don't need to wear one for support reasons (thank God), so I don't. My sister, on the other hand, wears one almost all the time, because her breasts are big enough that she has to - it's uncomfortable not to have them supported. To me, honestly, that's the real purpose of a bra - to provide support when needed. And to provide coverage if you're wearing something sheer/transparent enough to see through. Unless you want it to be seen through. :)

[amberdiceless.livejournal.com]

I also wear a bra any time I'm not bathing or sleeping. I just feel weird without one, and saggage is an issue, especially in the past six years since I had my kid.

If I had to come up with a set of rules, I'd say wear one if you're larger than an A cup, going to work or any formal sort of setting, and/or if you're wearing anything sheer or tight-fitting and you don't want guys staring at your chest all day. You could probably get away without one in very casual settings or underneath anything that would effectively hide the evidence.

I definitely wouldn't wear one underneath anything that's strapless or has thinner straps than the bra itself. Unless you're talking strapless bras, which to me are an entirely different question.

As far as the skank/not skank issue, I don't automatically assume a woman not wearing a bra is skanky, but being without a bra when one obviously *needs* the support and/or coverage does raise my eyebrows a bit. As a rule of thumb, if I (female, straight and married) can't take my eyes off your chest because of your lack of a bra is so painfully apparent, then you should be wearing one.

I've personally never been able to understand what bras have to do with feminism or womens' rights. It's a functional piece of clothing that is essential in some situations, for some people, and not for others. Wearing or not wearing one should not be a statement--merely a decision.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

My little sister (who is far cooler than I) suggested that if a woman wasn't wearing a bra, and her nipples were visible, guys would assume she was coming on to them... I've pretty much been going by your rules. Pain in the ass, though. ;)

Do you just avoid wearing strappy tank tops? (Strapless bras-- I hear they're horrible. I'm quite grateful I've never had to use one.)

[amberdiceless.livejournal.com]

I'm hopeless conservative when it comes to clothing...I have a grand total of one sleeveless top. Otherwise my clothing starts at t-shirts and gets more modest from there. I have to be in danger of heat stroke before I'll wear shorts. So, not really an issue for me. :)

Myself, the only truly comfortable bras I've ever found (and even they don't fit perfectly) are a certain variety of Underscore bra made by JCPenney. I badly need some replacements...hope they haven't stopped making it since last time I stocked up. O.O