Daaaamn.

[zdashamber]

Wow. At least I don't own a house.

Looked at my first water bill this week, and found that it was for $677, at which point I was like Wow, water's going to be pretty expensive... and then I looked some more and found that they said I was using 3,200 gallons a day which um no. Phoned EBMUD and they sent someone to check the meter in case they'd read it wrong; he left a doorhanger yesterday that said "No, the meter was spinning as I watched it, and also now it's up to 5,100 gallons a day. Oh, and here's a nifty booklet and some dye tabs for toilet leak checking."

So now my toilet water is blue, because apparently it only empties about half of the tank when it flushes (is that normal?) and that dye is crazy strong and will take forever to dilute out... But the toilet isn't leaking. Phoned the landlady.

Plumber came today and the upshot is that it's $8,250 to replace the pipes from the meter to the house, since they're all probably about to go out if the first one did; unless they have to tear up 100 feet of concrete driveway, in which case it's $12,500.

Do people with houses have that kind of money sitting around? Is that the sort of thing that's required to have on hand? I've got some money stashed in case of job loss or sudden need for a kiln or car or whatever, but not 8K. Where does that kind of money come from? Credit card, I guess? Or can you tack on small amounts like that to a mortgage? Anything that involves going to a bank for a line of credit or refinance or whatever probably = UR SOL with the credit crunch. Middle class relatives with money?

If I owned the house, I'd probably see if I could do the digging myself just renting a mini backhoe, cut the cost that way... But damn.

Guess it's something to consider while considering leaping on housing deals here. Looks like another year of saving tacked on before the potential housebuying future.

Comments

[colomon.livejournal.com]

I would think that $8,000 - $12,000 surprise bills are pretty damn unusual for homeowners -- certainly nothing like that at our house (knock on wood) or my parents', as far as I know. But $1,000 surprises come every couple of years, in general...

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Good luck with your house!

Totally random other info just to pad this comment: from what I heard about this situation, the pipes here are galvanized steel from the 40s-ish, and now is the time when they finally rust all the way through. And as a house behind another house, there's a long path with some solid concrete cover between here and the water company's linkup. Because the linkup is on the street side of the sidewalk, one of the plumber guys was saying they'd have to get the work permitted, which usually they'd avoid since it's a pain and $400, but what with having to tear up the sidewalk... Anyway, sounds like a pain in the ass that might not have been considered by, say, me, if I was buying a house. :)

[prince-corwin.livejournal.com]

Ten grand sounds like "Tree fell on my house" levels of surprise inconvenience. As such, I would suspect that there are various forms of insurance to cover it.

However, renting means not needing to give a damn.

[colomon.livejournal.com]

Ah, see, our house was built 1972ish. :)

[denyse.livejournal.com]

Well, the last and only time I owned a place we got hit for $25k of roof something or the other out of the blue, and it was pretty darn heinous.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Wow. How did you cover that? Are you sworn off on buying from now on because of the trauma?

[evilmagnus]

Alcohol.

See, we were good. We did due diligence on our building, had the guy up on the roof, and he said it'd be fine for 10 - 15 years. Sorted.

What we failed to consider was that there were two buildings in the condo association, and it was the *other* building that had no real roof to speak of.

There was also some deep damage on the north facing walls of our building that a surveyor had no hope of catching, being the result of the incredibly crappy, terribly corrupt and probably illegal original construction.

Anyhoo, 1.9% APR credit card access checks and draining our savings let us cover it. And we were lucky to sell for way more than we bought it two years later, so the entire experience of home-ownership was a wash for us.

So now we're very, very cautious about buying condos or any HOA with landscaping and communal property obligations. SFH 4TW.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

10K of "you must fix this NOW and insurance will not cover it" is fairly rare. More likely is "this must be done in the next few months", which gives you a little bit of options. But yes, large unexpected bills are definitely a part of it.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree, unexpected bills are extremely rare. Every single appliance has researchable life spans. A roof lasts 15 to 20 years depending on the materials you buy. You can and should plan these replacement/repair expenses. Plumbing with the exception of sewage also has an estimated life depending on materials.
One should expect these costs. I know how old each appliance in my house is and I plan on replacing them 1-2 years after the usual obselence date. Just did that with my 14 year old fridge. I got two extra years and replaced it before I lost food.
My vinyl siding is now two years older than it should go. I know I can get 3-5 more years out of it as long as I don't mind the house looking crappy. I will squeeze that out since I don't have the money now. Hardly unexpected.
My hot water heater needs to be replaced in that 5 years as well as it is getting to the end of a lifespan.
I guess my point is the meaning of 'unexpected'. If in 3 years my water heater floods my basement, its not unexpected since I was pushing the lifespan. Its a juggling act, just like cars.
When they start pushing 120 thousand miles, is it a surprise when you replace the struts? Same principle.

Quick no cost test

[presterjon.livejournal.com]

Okay, in the evening turn off your hot water heater. If its electric flip the switch, if its gas there is a valve and a probably a switch depending on model. Then turn off the main in the evening.

In the morning see which toilet tank is empty. There is your culprit. If there is no empty tank, turn on the water and see what the pressure is like. No pressure, leak somewhere. Pressure? That is a puzzler.

Re: Quick no cost test

[(Anonymous)]

It was probably obvious but in case there is someone reading with a question: The hot water tank must be off when the main is off, if it empties itself and runs...well its another $600-$1000 the homeowner just spent.

Since you didn't mention hearing a toliet running, (which we almost always do) that suggests there is something odd. Post the results I am curious.

[reluctantgenius.livejournal.com]

Are you stuck for several thousand dollars of repair?

I think it is possible to have repair insurance to cover anything that goes wrong with a house in the first year you own it, so if something gets missed in the inspection, you're covered.

Re: Quick no cost test

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Nah, I rent. I guess if the landlady doesn't fix it, break the lease and move. Yay. But seems like she's going to fix it. The inspection repair insurance does sound familiar.

Also, at this rate I'm probably not going to be at LM and CJs at 12 in case you were considering that...

[kashma.livejournal.com]

Let's try this again - last comment was eaten by LJ.

Here's my take (13 years of home owning experience).

We haven't had to spend more than about a grand on any given "emergency" thing, but stuff does break, and you should plan for it.
We did decide to get a new furnace recently; it wasn't broken, but was old and very inefficient. That was 4k.
First off, before you buy, get a really thorough inspection done by a pro, and make sure they check things like plumbing, electrical, gas, sidewalks, wood condition, bugs, foundation, evidence of flooding or water in the basement, roof, and anything else that's a problem in your neck of the woods. Up here, we all used to use oil to heat, so getting a certificate of decommissioning of the oil tank is a big deal and very important, for example.

General good advice is that you should budget spending 1% of your house value on repairs per year. We rarely have, but it's a guideline.

So what we do is we take the largest utility bill we pay a year for each utility, add that to all the other stuff (mortgage, insurance, taxes, escrow, etc), and a bit more, and that's our monthly payment to ourselves into a house account, where we pay all that from. Because we're putting in more than we spend, we have built up quite a bit in there, over time, which means that we have a cushion of a few grand handy when we need it. At times, we've had a lot in there, and have used it for big improvements, like getting storm windows. But we always have some saved up in there. Helps us sleep well at night.

The inspection should more or less reassure you that you won't have any huge issues for at least a few years after buying, so you can build up that stash slowly, and not worry to much about it.

And, once a few years have gone by (assuming good market conditions) you will have enough equity in the house to be able to get a home equity loan if you do have some heinous emergency come up.

Best of luck! This is a great time to buy, if you have the financial stuff lined up and have good credit.

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

You pay double your mortgage each month with half going into a fixit fund? Wow.

[kashma.livejournal.com]

no, sorry, maybe I didn't express that right. We put the amount equal to the amount we owe on mortgage, utilities, etc. into an account and pay for mortgage, utilities, etc., out of that account. But because we estimate utilities bills using the highest level they get during the year, we end up with a bit extra most months, which then becomes our repair fund.

Does that make sense?

[cochese.livejournal.com]

Are you responsible for that water bill?

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Could be. Water bills in general are my responsiblity, but this isn't me wasting water, it's the house. The landlady offered to cut the rent by 500 this month, which still leaves me on the hook for 177. I don't know. I suppose next month when the even bigger water bill comes I can try to make that up.

[beth_leonard]

If the water is leaking into the ground, not the sewer system, you can call the water company, explain what happened, and get a cut on your water bill. Not the whole thing, but quite a bit. Water going into the sewer sytem (toilets, showers, etc.) has to be treated by the water co., but water leaking places where rain washes anyway isn't as expensive for the water company to deal with.

We budget $10K annually for home repairs and do 1 major repair about every other year (roof, re-piping, new car, furnace, electrical, landscaping, external repainting, appliances, fence, etc.) Some years we don't spend as much so the money rolls over for the next big thing. Most normal people buy new furniture too.

If you want to own a home, you have to plan for those expenses. If for some reason you didn't, you can get a home equity line of credit for that type of thing. As of last month, rates were about 1.5% lower than on a 30 year fixed mortgage. When I asked, I was told that we could get approved for 250K over the phone because we had excellent credit, even with the credit crisis.

Maintaining excellent credit == good thing.

Your pipes are not an unexpected expense, they're part of normal maintenence of a house. It's the type of thing that is hard to do "maintenence" on so the homeowner just plans to fix it after the leak occurs.

--Beth

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

By the way, thank you so much for mentioning that the water company will adjust the bill downwards if you call them! You saved either me or the landlady (hopefully the landlady) $900. :)

[zdashamber.livejournal.com]

Also, hope you're about to go to sleep. Like I am. :)

[cochese.livejournal.com]

I should go to bed. I'm not tired, likely due to sleeping in a bit and having a crazy amount of caffeine today. Had a bit of an emotional kick in the stomach and I'm not overly inclined to go to bed.